Comments on: The pleasures and pains of a writing workshop

By: Catherine

Catherine — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:19:27 +0000

I’m not sure that any type of class produces good practitioners of the subject studied–I wouldn’t classify myself as *good* at yoga, tae kwon do, private investigation–but I’ve enjoyed and benefited from the classes I’ve taken in these areas, and I’m certainly better at them than I was before the classes.

As far as writing workshops go, I was lucky to have a leader who *does* believe in what she’s doing, and I certainly benefited from readers who let me know what I needed to get out of my head and onto paper to make my fiction better.

By: Clifford Garstang

Clifford Garstang — Thu, 08 May 2008 23:32:07 +0000

I’ve had those conversations as well, and I know there are those who don’t believe in what they’re doing, but I know that there are many who have the opposite outlook. And I don’t know about producing “good writers”–that seems like a tough standard to measure–but I’m certain a workshop can produce better writers.

In the end, as you say, it’s a good subject for debate!

By: Cliff Burns

Cliff Burns — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:03:32 +0000

It’s a good subject for debate. But I’ve had extended conversations with a number of very good writers who use creative writing classes to supplement their income and they were unanimous in their contention that workshops might provide some sense of community, belongingness, but as to actually producing good writers, forget it. And some of these folks have been teaching/leading workshops for many years. Authors have to make a dime to pay the rent and often workshop gigs are the best thing available. Sad but true…

By: Clifford Garstang

Clifford Garstang — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:54:08 +0000

I haven’t yet read Cliff Burns’s post, but I will. In general, though, I disagree about workshops and creative writing classes. The desire can’t be learned, and perhaps the artistry can’t either. But writing also about craft and there clearly are techniques that one can learn in a class. A writer might be able to deduce these techniques by reading great books–not a bad idea–but classes can distill the principles and save a writer time. I know I’ve learned from the classes I’ve taken.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:47:35 +0000

Hi, Cliff, good to hear from you again!

I always flinch a bit at any description of “real” writers because the definitions provided almost always classify me as “unreal.”

Some things can be taught — grammar, the proper use of technique, the literary tradition (i.e., The Canon), how to critique your own and other’s writing. Some things perhaps cannot. An ear for language, a sense of the telling detail or the apt metaphor — perhaps they cannot be taught.

Discipline and perseverance — I’d put them in a grey area. I think they can be encouraged, if not taught.

I don’t think workshops can make a good writer great, but they can make good writers better, and give good writers a forum and structure for their work. I wouldn’t be involved with WriterHouse if I didn’t believe that.

Here’s Cliff’s Writing 101 post: http://cliffjburns.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/writing-101/. It’s harsh, but there’s some good advice in it.

By: Cliff Burns

Cliff Burns — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:33:45 +0000

Elizabeth: I have to admit, I’m not fan of writing workshops or creative writing classes. I wrote about this on my blog, a post called “Writing 101″, so I won’t belabor the point, merely say that most creative writing instructors (and I was one) are doing it for the simple, mercenary motive of making money. Few, if any, believe their classes will produce a better quality writer and the honest ones will confess to feeling some guilt for making a dime off people when they know writing can’t be taught. Real writers write regardless of the circumstances and you can’t teach discipline and perseverance. Thanks for this…